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This is the most bizarre week I can recall with the Dodgers in a long time. The Blue Crew celebrated Jackie Robinson day with a 5-4 victory over the San Diego Padres to close out the homestand with a perfect 6-0 record.
It is amazing when you realize that the Dodgers have:
*Won nine out of ten, and Kershaw doesn’t have a decision in any of them.
*A center fielder playing out of his mind hitting opposite field home runs that display absolutely insane strength and power.
*An erratic shortstop that is making spectacular plays while blowing the routine ones. All the while stealing bases on virtually every opportunity he reaches base.
*A team that has been giving up leads that shouldn’t be surrendered, only to miraculously come back and hand their fans victorious walk-off celebrations.
Javy Guerra saws off the bat of Jesus Guzman. The ball trickles fair resulting in a 2-6-4-3 triple play
Then there was today. Kemp, Ethier and Rivera flexed their muscles again accounting for 4 runs to start off the scoring, only to see the Padres scramble back against a Clayton Kershaw who simply didn't have his best stuff. With the game in the balance in the top of the ninth, Javy Guerra surrendered a hit and a walk to start off the frame. Then the defense, thanks to A.J. Ellis, pulled off a goofy once in a life-time triple play at the very moment that all were thinking that the wheels would finally fall off this magical 2012 season and a loss was inevitable. Ut was their first triple play in 15 years. To cap things off, SkinnySwag steps up to the plate with the bases full and two outs in the bottom of the ninth and punches an 0-2 liner into left field for the victory.
Gordon rips an 0-2 pitch to left field and...
...celebrates his walk off single.
So here they stand after ten games.
Los Angeles9-1 .900 --
Arizona 6-3 .667 2.5
Colorado4-5 .444 4.5
San Fran. 4-5 .444 4.5
San Diego 2-8 .200 7.0
All were hopeful for a strong start, but who could have imagined this? The road trip that starts on Tuesday is made up of three games in Milwaukee and three in Houston. More beatable teams in this fortunate April schedule that is only ten games old.
Ted Lilly, 7 IP, 2 Hits allowed, 0 ER for the win. (photo by Victor Decolongon - Getty Images)
With the Dodger 6-1 victory tonight, I must say that anything short of a sweep of the Padres in this series with Kershaw going tomorrow would be a disappointment.
Ted Lilly made his first start of the year and performed as he closed out the year last year. After a lackluster minor league start earlier in the week, Lilly was dominant tonight in his first start of the year. Matt Kemp is on the way to his second consecutive NL Player of the week honors. Kemp is proving night after night that he may be the best player in baseball.
Rollie Fingers signs my ugly Padres "Taco Bell" Jersey
I attended the Tristar Collectibles autograph show in San Francisco at the Cow Palace today wherer I landed some autographs on authentic jerseys from Rollie Fingers, Johnny Bench and Ferguson Jenkins today. There was a lot of cool Dodger stuff there for sale. I was able to pick up a nice autographed 8X10 of Maury Wills, Wes Parker, Dusty Baker and Bill Singer.
Johnny Bench signing
I saw Jose Canseco, Carlton Fisk, Frank Robinson and Pete Rose there today too. A true all star event today.
Pete Rose sitting with his playboy playmate girlfriend and Johnny Bench
in the background. They don't speak to each other (Rose and Bench, not the girlfriend).
Though Rose and Bench were seated within 12 feet of each other, neither one acknowledged the other’s existence. It looks like Rose isn’t going to forgive Bench for his negative remarks about the “hit king” a few years back.
Frank Robinson is moving very slow these days and his lines take forever because he signs so slowly.
Jose Canseco, just as he finishes signing for a long line of fans.
Jose Canseco was busier than I thought he would be. Though this photo I took of him shows he had no one to sign for. It tells an inaccurate story as he had just finished signing for about 50 people. I wanted to ask him if he was Jose or Ozzie, but I couldn't get close enough.
Ferguson Jenkins is a very nice guy. I posed for a photo op with him. A very friendly and easy going guy.
In what I believe was one of the oddest pitching performances I have ever seen, Aaron Harang chalked up strikeouts like a squirrel collects nuts in the Dodgers 9-8 victory over the Padres tonight. It was insane because for a time there, it appeared that Harang was hardly dominating and possibly wasn’t even going to go the required 5 innings for the decision.
Harang was dealing tonight (photo by Mark J. Terrell, Associated Press)
Handed a 4-0 lead after three innings. Harang, who had already struck out the side three times, almost didn’t survive the fourth, surrendering three runs and looking hardly dominating as he eventually retired the side. But the resilient Dodgers kept putting runs on the board, with timely hits by Justin Sellers, AJ Ellis, Tony Gwynn Jr. and then capped off by a two run bomb into the right field pavilion by Matt Kemp.
Matt Kemp hits a two-run homer (photo by Mark J. Terrell, Associated Press)
With some room to breath, Harang was able to settle down and start throwing strikes again. By the end of the 6th inning, he had already tied his personal game high in strikeouts, with 13, but the Ks were taking their toll. The Padres weren’t threatening, but by the time he walked John Baker with one out in the top of the sixth, Aaron had already thrown 109 pitches. In came Todd Coffey to provide “relief,” and the Padres immediately banged out two hits, cashing in on the Harang walk. The result was that Harang didn’t even qualify for a quality start, allowing four earned runs over his 6 1/3 innings of work.
Regardless, it was still an amazing feat for the Dodger starter, who broke Johnny Podres’ 50 year old record of consecutive strikeouts when he struck out Cameron Maybin in the bottom of the third for his ninth consecutive “K.” Unfortunately for Harang, the Dodger bullpen could not hold the lead for the hard throwing right hander, depriving him of his first win as a Dodger.
Middle relief continues to be a concern for the Dodgers, specifically Coffey and Elbert.
Following Harang’s departure, Coffey failed to record an out (yielding two hits and hitting a batter). Elbert again couldn’t consistently hit the strike zone as he walked in a run immediately before giving up a sacrifice fly and striking out Yonder Alonso to finish the inning.
Though Coffey’s performance this far is distressing, Elbert was able to successfully record two straight outs tonight, as Mattingly allowed him to return to the mound in the 8th, but he promptly raised concerns again by surrendering a double to Jeremy Hermida. Josh Lindblom, who may soon be outrighted to AAA Albuquerque, came in and immediately retired the side in another brilliant performance.
With Javy Guerra unavailable tonight, Kenley Jansen was on the verge of striking out the side to record the save in the top of the ninth when disaster struck. Leaving a 91 MPH fastball up, Padre third baseman Chase Headley blasted a two run homer deep into the right field seats to tie the game. Jansen's velocity was down again, raising concerns to this Dodger fan.
Honeycutt talks things over with Kenley Jansen after he surrendered the lead. (photo by Getty Images)
So of course, the drama reached heightened proportions in the bottom of the ninth. Padre pitcher Andrew Cashner retired the first two Dodger batters before consecutively walking Mark Ellis, Matt Kemp and James Loney. Stepping up to the plate was Captain Walk-Off himself, Andre Ethier, to face lefty reliever Joe Thatcher. In what turned out to be as uneventful walk-off win as I can remember, Ethier stood in the box and took four straight balls for a Walk-off , Walk-off. Crazy, crazy game.
Juan Uribe and Clayton Kershaw celebrate and Mark Ellis scores the winning run. (Getty Images)
What follows is a continuation of a transcript from the promotional event in Mill Valley on April 11th with San Rafael Pacifics Manager and former Dodger outfielder, Mike Marshall. Marshall was joined by 25 year veteran baseball executive Mike Shapiro who worked approximately 20 years with Stan Kasten in Atlanta and Washington. The interview was conducted by Bay Area Sportstalk host Bruce Macgowen. Macgowen also allowed 5 questions from the audience, a sparce crowd of approximately 20 persons. Of the 5 questions, three were asked by me and are provided towards the end of this transcript. Portions of the event were not included due to the longevity and topics of answers that didn’t pertain to this forum.
Bruce Macgowen: The steroid era was just starting up when I covered the Oakland A’s. I was telling Mike about this, I’d go to the clubhouse after the game to get interviews and you couldn’t find anyone because they were all working out with weights. The whole team was in there. Did that kind of freak you out when you first saw that happening?
Mike Marshall: Um, not a whole lot. I never experienced it first hand. We saw it, body building, weight training, supplements, creatine. you know it was all starting to come over from the Olympics, it was coming over from Europe. Track and Field. Nobody ever thought that you could build that kind of muscle and play baseball. It just didn’t go hand and hand. With the guys that lifted weights, you saw if they got a little bit too muscle bound, they’d not be able to swing the bat...but there were these really talented athletes that found the ability to add that strength and not lose very much flexibility. And for 5 or 6 years there, the numbers, wow. Putting strength into the game of baseball that had never been there. I’m kind of glad I really wasn’t part of it, you know I went over to Japan and then retired. I’m kind of glad that I wasn’t put in that situation. I would have been the perfect guy to do that.
Bruce Macgowen: Do you think you might have done it, been tempted to?
Mike Marshall: Well I hate lifting weights. There’s nothing worse than having to go and lift weights, it’s so tedious. I love to practice. You know my weight lifting was to take 200 swings or take 200 fly balls, or to play long toss. I loved to get my strength by playing, I would have never thought that training and conditioning was the way to go. I practiced the game to play the game. I went to Spring Training after leaving the Dodgers to the Mets and then the Red Sox and it was like 1:00 pm and I’d turn around and say, “Where is everybody?” It’s not even one o’clock and everyone’s on the golf course. With the Dodgers, Tommy was just getting going. And many, many nights we would be turning on the lights playing until 8 or 9 at night right through dinner and we would still be on the field. So that’s the way we trained. I just liked playing.
The other thing that happened, and we could spend hours on the topic, was that the money was starting to evolve. Arbitration and free agency. All of a sudden players were starting to make 4, 5 maybe 10 million dollars. When that kind of money is on the table, you are getting compared to everybody else with stats. Unfortunately, even myself, I got caught up in that, to put up big numbers. We forgot about what really mattered and that was team, the organization and winning games. Playing it the right way. When it was all said and done, there was probably more good that came out of it. I’m kind of glad that they have controlled it.
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The conversation continued on in more detail about the steroid era and the impact it had on the game. Eventually the interviewer turned the discussion to Tommy Lasorda.
Bruce Macgowen: The thing about baseball is the characters that made the game what I think it is. You had Tommy Lasorda, about as colorful a guy as there can be. Was he as irascible and crazy in the clubhouse as we believe?
Sports Illustrated photo, October 1988
Mike Marshall: Oh my goodness. Everybody asks me about Tommy. The enthusiasm, the way he handled the players. Game strategy. Whenever I have a setting like this where I have to go and give a speech or something, I just tell Tommy stories. (Audience laughs). We’d go to Philadelphia, his whole family was from Morristown, PA, so whenever we’d go to Philadelphia we’d go to his restaurant. And it was after the Godfather, and we know the horse head scene. He would get on Sax, Steve Sax. I mean he loved Sax, but he would always get on him. We had a festival at his restaurant and they had one of those big pig heads, you know with the apple in the mouth and the ugly face with teeth. I get a call when we get back (to the hotel) and Sax is telling me that I gotta help him because he doesn’t know what’s going on. There was a pigs head in his bed. Tommy had gotten the pig head back from the restaurant, got in his room, put that ugly thing under the sheets. Saxy got into bed, there’s that big ugly thing. (audience laughter). I mean we had guys like Jerry Reuss, Jay Johnstone, and Burt Hooton.
Bruce Macgowen: Jay Johnstone was one of the craziest guys I ever heard of.
Mike Marshall: Crazy. Tommy had to hide his clothes. On every road trip in spring, Tommy would go to all the exhibition games, the national anthem would be played and Tommy’s clothes would be hanging up there on the flag pole. He’d come back from a game and his nice $200 shoes would be nailed to the wall. It was quite an experience, Reuss and Johnstone and the people I got to meet.
Bruce Macgowen: Then there’s a guy like Orel Hershiser, who was like a goody two shoes all American kid who would apologize for saying “Gosh.” I got to meet him when he came to the Giants for one year. He was just a sweetheart.
Mike Marshall: And that’s why Tommy, because of that, it was like Orel was going 8-10 and 10-10 and Tommy was like you’ve got the stuff to be the best in baseball. From now on you’re the bulldog. I want bulldog mentality, you’re the bulldog. And he looks like a poodle, but Tommy said bulldog and he wanted him to be fierce and tough and then all of a sudden, it came all together.
If you had to pick a guy that you’d have to play for, it’s Tommy Lasorda. He just is baseball. He has magic. Who’d have thought that he could take the kids on the Olympic team after he retired and win a gold medal and beat Cuba. I saw him last year at the winter meetings and he’s still going strong in his golf cart in spring training in Arizona. You’ll see him at the games again, I’m sure he’ll be close to Magic Johnson and Stan Kasten in this new era with the Dodgers, I mean, he’ll forever be the Dodgers. I was very, very fortunate to get to play for him.
Bruce Macgowen: The unofficial ambassador for Major League Baseball. The writers loved him because they could always go to him. Sometimes he would pepper his phrases with salty language that the writers just loved. The radio and TV guys weren’t interested in it because we couldn’t play it on the air. The famous story about Dave Kingman, where a reported asked him his opinion of Kingman’s Performance. Tommy aswered him with “What the blank do you think I thought of it, he hit three blanking home runs!”
Marshall: And you know the greatest thing about Tommy was that he never forgot a name. The other thing is that Tommy could go off on a F bomb tirade using it every other word for 15 minutes and just go nuts and then about ten minutes later, he might have three nuns in his office sipping tea and talking calmly. The cardinal from the church would arrive. I never saw a guy that could turn it off, then turn it on, never forget a face. He had it all, he is just a personality. The same guy that was cussing away is now hosting a tea and coffee chat with three nuns as if the tirade never happened.
Bruce Macgowen: He loved being in L.A. I think. The celebrity, notoriety. Playing in L.A. was different. Mike, I don’t know if I can mention this, because his wife is here, but I’m sure she probably knows. Mike went out with Belinda Carlisle, lead singer of the GoGos.. Did you get a lot of flack from your teammates? Did they rib you a lot about that?
Mike Marshall: It didn’t really last that long. Because their rock group was touring a lot. It was really Bobby Welch that got me into it, there was another girl, she had a group called “X” and her name was Excene. He dragged me to a concert one night, the GoGos were opening. Nobody knew who the GoGos were. I met her and we dated, but it wasn’t, uh, what can I say? Baseball and rock stars in the 80s, that’s not a good thing....I saw the handwriting on the wall with a lot of athletes. the Steve Howe thing was bubbling at the time with the cocaine problem...that was a real problem, almost an epidemic with not only society but it leaked into baseball. I was very fortunate, you know, the Dodgers were very straight laced. We wore a coat and tie when we traveled, we didn’t drink on the planes and the way the O’Malley’s ran things for the most part..and then when Steve Howe problem happened, it was a real issue. I’m kind of glad that that’s out of baseball also.
Macgowen: Tim Raines told us that he broke the cocaine vials in his pocket once when he slid into second base while stealing. It was that endemic to the game back then.
Marshall: Yeah, young guys with a lot of money. A lot of people just didn’t know.
Macgowen: Well at least you weren’t around in the early 70s when Doc Ellis pitched a no-hitter under the influence of LSD...
Mike Shapiro: We had a different situation in the Giants clubhouse in the late 80s, early 90s. Roger Craig ran not what I’d call a tight ship but he had clubhouse leaders like Bob Brenly. But there were some guys that had different issues doing on. Kevin Mitchell, who was a great guy, very funny, light hearted kind of guy, but I remember getting a phone call in the middle of the night to come and get him out of jail. He had this love for guns and at night he’d go outside and shoot them off. He got arrested and they took all the guns away from him. A few weeks later, I get another phone call, Kevin’s in jail again for shooting off his guns. In the middle of Redwood City. You just can’t go around shooting off guns in Redwood City.
Macgowen: Well do we have questions from the audience. We’ve been going on here for a while. What about you sir in the front row,
(He selects me)
Evan Bladh: Yes, I have a question for Mike Marshall. I know when you came up in ’81, I think you were Minor League Player of the Year. There was transition period with the Dodgers just starting. A changing of the guard per se. You had, Garvey, Lopes, Cey, Dusty Baker, Reggie Smith, they were coming towards the tail end of their careers with the Dodgers. Eventually they started to be dealt off and traded away. So you came up, and Sax and Candy Maldonado, Brock, Alejandro Pena, a new core of youngsters. How were you received by the old vets, who had to see the writing on the wall with their careers coming to an end? Were they accommodating towards the young up and comers that were gunning for their jobs? How was it?
Mike Marshall: You know it’s interesting. That’s a great question. I think that that group of guys did the same thing that they experienced with the late 60s and early 70s Dodgers. There was a lot of success there in the early 70s and that group with Wes Parker, Wills, Willie and Tommy Davis. So I think it was a very intelligent group of guys that they realized and understood the Dodger way and what was going to happen. Ron Cey went to the Cubs, Lopes to the A’s and Cubs. Garvey to the Padres, Dusty with the Giants and A’s. And quite a few of the pitchers, Burt Hooton went to the Astros, Charlie Hough went to Texas. So, you know what, looking back on it, you would think that they would be more bitter and they wouldn’t have treated us well, but I can’t say that.
I mean they gave me number five, so I had six and seven right next to me which was Garvey and Yeager. I’ll never forget, I was having trouble hitting and I came in and they gave me a prescription for some glasses. That’s what they did when you had trouble hitting, you go and see the eye doctor. So I’m talking to Steve Yeager about it, and I said “yeah, I kind of like your glasses.” He wore glasses when he caught and they wrapped around. And at the time they were kind of high tech, they wrapped around, they were really neat. And the next day, he had bought me two sets of glasses. He had taken my prescription in and had two sets of glasses made for me.
Steve Garvey, he’d take me out to dinner. Billy Russell, a really, really great group of guys. I think that they knew it was their time. I would have to say, eh, maybe it came from Tommy, you know Tommy had all those guys from back in the minors, Triple A Albuquerque. Probably Tommy just said, you know, it’s time. Unfortunately Al Campanis had the issue with Nightline and the famous Ted Koppel thing were he got himself in hot water with what he said, but I must say that Al Campanis was the architect of all that system development. He was the architect of how we were moving guys a little bit before everybody knew they needed to be moved. He was a real genius, it was sad that later on in his career he would make mistakes with what he said. He was uninformed.
So yeah, to answer your question. Those guys were great. Reggie Smith, Dusty Baker. They all knew they still had some time left but they knew that this group of guys was going to take over and be the 80s.
Bruce Macgowen: You mentioned Reggie Smith, there was a guy that was kinda...he would be a good guy to have in your corner. He went through a lot and boy, if there was any kind of racial slight or you were looking down on him, he’d challenge you to a fight like that.
Mike Marshall: Yeah, and again, going back to those players that played in the late 60s and early 70s, especially the African-American players. There was a time when there were only a couple of African-American players on each team, and it started to grow and Henry Aaron and Dusty Baker, those guys having to play in Atlanta. Going down to Houston and playing in the South. I mean it was still bad, going to Spring Training in Florida. Those guys for years and years and years, when you go down to Vero Beach where our Spring Training was, they couldn’t eat in the same places. Still in the 60s and early 70s a lot of those players all experienced that. For me personally, what an education I got, being with Reggie Smith. You know, he played in Boston at a time when black men didn’t play in Boston, unless you were a Celtic. It was tough. He taught me a lot about life. A lot about baseball. How to conduct myself. What an experience getting to play with him. You talk about walking in someone’s shoes, the Hank Aarons and the Dusty Bakers, and the Bob Gibsons. (interrupted)
Bruce Macgowen: Did you ever face Bob Gibson?
Mike Marshall: No, he was retired by then. J.R. Richard, I faced J.R., and so...Dusty talked about it a lot, he was close to Henry Aaron and those guys overcame a lot.
Bruce Macgowen: Who was the toughest pitcher you ever faced?
Mike Marshall: You know stats wise, I looked back on that because everybody asks me that question. I was something like 1 for 22 against John Candelaria. I think about it now and six foot seven or eight, a left hander with those good Pirate teams. John Candelaria gave me fits. For pure, “I can’t believe what I just saw” stuff, there were three guys. The early on Doc Gooden. For one year, Mike Scott and forever, Nolan Ryan. You kept waiting for when 99 MPH would end with Ryan. He was 41 or 42 years old and we were in a tie game in the top of the ninth. 0-0, and the bases were loaded. He hit me with a 99MPH fastball, he was 41(years old) I think.
I’m telling you, one of the saddest things I saw, the greatest talent I ever saw on a baseball field for a short period of time was Doc Gooden. I mean, 95, 96 MPH and it looked like he was playing catch. And Mike Scott, did he pitch a little for the Giants?
Macgowen: No, I believe it was the Astros.
Marshall: Astros, before I think it was the Mets. Anyway, that year he won the Cy Young, I don’t know if he was cheating, or if Roger had taught him the split finger.
Macgowen: He used to scuff up the baseball and Giant fans would rub emory boards together when he pitched.
Marshall: Whether he was cheating or not. He was doing things to a baseball that made them un-hittable. I mean balls were dropping and they were going over 90 MPH. It was unfair there for a year or so.
Shapiro: Let me tell you a story. That year (1986), Roger Craig was collecting the baseballs to build this case against Mike Scott. He told me to put a camera down the first base line and fix it to film Mike Scott. He said “I know he’s scuffing up the baseball and I’m going to come out to the mound, and you keep that camera focused on him, because at some point he’s going to drop that sandpaper or whatever he’s using to scuff the ball.” So sure enough, its like the 5th or 6th inning. Craig has collected all the balls. They’re all scuffed up. He goes out to the mound and starts yelling and screaming at the umpires. I tell the cameraman to stay on Mike Scott. At the end of the game we go back to the clubhouse, now Roger had gotten thrown out, we set up a monitor to look at the tape and see if we had footage that Mike Scott had dropped an emory board, which everybody could see, but we wanted it on tape. So the cameraman’s on Mike Scott, Mike Scott, Mike Scott, and Roger comes out and starts arguing. The umpire throws him out of the game, and the camera cuts away for a second to show it. Then back to Mike Scott and the emory board is already on the ground. We missed it.
Evan Bladh: (to Mike Marshall) What are your recollections of Fernando Valenzuela and “Fernandomania?”
Mike Marshall: Quick story. I’m in Reno, Nevada. I’m playing for the Lodi Dodgers and I’m 19 years old. It’s a half an hour before the game and they tell us that we signed a kid out of Mexico, he’s 19 years old and he’s pitching that night and I’m playing first base. It was Fernando Valenzuela. He had hair down to about here, (points to his shoulders). Big long black hair. He didn’t speak a word of English. He was from somewhere in Mexico and Mike Brito had signed him. He threw about 90 MPH. He had a curve ball. I think we got beat that night. It was nothing special. It was towards the end of the season.
So we went to Spring Training the next year and Bobby Castillo, a Mexican-American, right handed pitcher, taught him the screwball. And the next year we went up to Double A in San Antonio and it got a little more interesting, He still didn’t speak any English. He’s still drinking his Budweiser. He’s 20 now and Hershiser was on that staff. And all of a sudden he’s lights out. He’s up to the big club. He didn’t even go to Triple A. Next year there’s a bunch of injuries coming out of Spring Training and this kid could flat out pitch. With a screwball, change up, threw over 90 MPH. He’s a heck of an athlete and he’s the guy. That was another move by Al Campanis. He had no fear. You know Freddie didn’t even go to Triple A, he pitched opening day against the Astros, I think he struck out 12 or 13 guys and threw a 3 hitter, and Fernandomania starts.
You know, to see him at 19 and then the changes at 20. It just shows you that one pitch, just one little change, what can happen. And then to be a Mexican American pitching in Dodger Stadium in Chavez Ravine. The year the Dodgers won in ’81, I got called up at the end of the year. But to be a part of that. And then to experience something very similar with Orel Hershiser with dominating, dominating performances. It was special.
I must say though if I say anything negative about Tommy, I think he over-pitched him. Fernando got a little afraid of his stuff about mid-way through his career and his pitch counts were in the 150s and 160s. He was afraid to throw in the middle of the plate and his stuff wasn’t quite as good. Tommy would just leave him out there and leave him out there and got Fernando burned out a little bit. Fernando was treated much like the Japanese treat their guys. They just keep them out there and burn them out a little bit. But we didn’t have much of a bullpen and Fernando wanted to keep going out there. But I would say, if there’s anything negative, and I love Tommy, but I would say he I thought he overused Fernando a little bit in his mid twenties and I think it took a toll on his career.
Bruce Macgowen: Dusty Baker told me that the one mistake that Tommy made was at the end of the 1980 season, the Dodgers beat the Astros three straight to force the one game playoff and Fernando was a rookie and the hottest pitcher on his staff, and Tommy wasn’t sure about him enough to start him in the one-game playoff. So he went with the veteran, it was Dave Goltz and he lost. So with Dusty, here it was 13 years later and they needed a win to win the division and so he went with the young hot hand, Solomon Torres. And he lost and Dusty was second guessing himself for years later.
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Other comments made during the night:
Asked by an audience member to further to elaborate about concentration and being in a “zone” while playing:
Mike Marshall: From the age of 18 years old until 32-33 years old, I swung a baseball bat everyday of my life. And i equate it to a Michael Phelps, the Olympic Swimmer, or a skier or somebody that trains at a high level. And I was close to maybe a top level player, I wasn’t a Hall of Famer but I was an All Star and I played on World Championship teams. The dedication and the hours I spent on the baseball field, was what it takes. Ken Griffey Jr., an extremely talented player, the most talented kid I’ve ever seen. He could kind of almost just walk out on the field. But I can’t imagine how many times I swung a baseball bat. And so when you do something that many times, and you work at something that hard, and then you get to do it at the highest levels and compete against the best. it’s just something, I’d say it’s a confidence thing.
But believe me. Later on in my career, when I became not an everyday player and I’d pinch hit or I was having trouble. It was funny because I would hear the crowd. I’d hear the Giant fan talking to me, just saying things. It’s funny, you’re not always in the zone and you have to train for it and work at it. I would imagine those race car driver and those skiers going down the slopes at those incredible speeds, it’s the same thing, like an out of body experience.
50,000 people at Dodger Stadium and I hit a home run to win the game and I come around and I touch home plate and there’s your teammates, and all of a sudden you hear the crowd. For all that time you’re performing, you’re just in another world. It’s hard to explain.
On Sports psychologists in the game today
Marshall: Now, with sports psychologists. I’m kind of in to that now. You see a guy that totally blew the game and he says something like, “I’m beyond that.” You can see that the sports psychologists are training these athletes that failure isn’t in the equation. It was a big part of our equation, we succeeded out of a fear of failure sometimes. We didn’t want to fail. And now the sports psychologists are changing the mentality where even when they fail, its either not their fault or they don’t want to dwell on it. That is really interesting to have that attitude.
The negative and feeling like you let your team down, especially with all the money you’re making, it’s hard on you. These sports psychologists at the high levels of sports have these athletes convinced that there is nothing negative, everything is positive. So that’s another way the game and sports have evolved.
Mike Marshall was asked to define his managerial style
Marshall: It has really changed. I grew up in an era where a teammate could punch another teammate over a mistake. Or a football coach could grab a players face mask and a manager could get in your face. And you know, you can’t do that anymore. The Larry Bowa type of managing anymore doesn’t work. Leo Durocher managed with fear, he’d get in a players face and he could intimidate the other team or hey could intimidate his players. Tommy did it in kind of a funny way. You used to be able to intimidate umpires. You can’t do that anymore. Players today are making 5, 6, 10 times what the managers are making. Back then , the managers made more than the players. Tommy was making more than I was, but now it’s not like that.
It is society and the mentality that has changed. When I was playing. there was the intimidation, and fear factor we had in our manager or football coach. Now, players will quit on you. Players will quit on you. So you watch the demeanor of the dugout. You watch if a player boots a ball or if a pitcher makes a bad pitch. Look at Bruce Bochy and how calm he is. If Lincecum gives up a home run, you look at the manager...nothing. Heck, Tommy and Larry Bowa and these managers they couldn’t even watch the game. Tommy would leave the dugout in the 9th if we were in a one run game. Now the players feed off the manager and how the manager reacts. They see how he responds to a player making an error or a base running mistake. So to answer your question, I have really had to change.
You can’t kick the water cooler anymore. You can’t show emotion, cuz the players feed off of you. You need to keep yourself under control. Pick your spots when you can argue with an umpire. You can’t argue with an umpire every inning, you can’t do it. Players will argue with umpires every inning and will lose focus. I take a little of Tommy and a little of Mike Scioscia and a little of Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser and Sparky Anderson and Chuck Tanner. All these great managers and Del Crandell my minor league manager. I take as many good qualities that I learned from them during my career. And if you watch, it’s an amazing thing to see how managerial styles have evolved over the last ten years because the Larry Bowa style with today’s player doesn’t work anymore.
Scioscia’s probably the most volatile of the bunch. Scioscia’s still got that going. He’s still yelling at the umpires and he’s still emotional.
I really looked forward to the event. A night with former Dodger, Mike Marshall (the outfielder)Manager of the Independent League San Rafael Pacifics. I figured it would be sparcely attended. After all, what Giant fan would want to attend an event in the middle of Giant Country, (Mill Valley, CA) in which a former was being interviewed. I thought it would be a super opportunity for me, because living here in the Bay Area, it isn’t often that I have an opportunity like this.
Mike Marshall dons the San Rafael Pacifics cap. The former Dodger has made a career out of managing in the Independent Minor Leagues for 12 years. (photo by Alan Dep, of the Marin Independent Journal)
So with former Giant starting pitcher Mike Lacoss also on the bill, (who also will serve as Marshall’s pitching coach), I arrived about 45 minutes before the start of the program. It was to be conducted by longtime San Francisco Bay Area Sportstalk host Bruce Macgowen and judging from the flyers I read that publicized the event, they would be talking not only about the Independent North American Baseball League and the Pacifics, but also about the Dodger-Giant rivalry.
I came prepared with questions and a few pieces of Dodger memorabilia with the hopes that Mike would be available to sign them afterwards. As the first person to enter the historic Throckmorton Theatre, I sat front row, right in the center. By the time showtime arrived, there were about 20 in attendance. But it was an enthusiastic group. I struct us a conversation with Patrick, a Giants fan, up until the start of the show. He was knowledgable and respectful. I told him about my allegiances. He agreed, Mike Marshall mashed when he first came up and those Dodger teams in the 80s may be amongst the most underrated Dodger teams.
So the program started, and Bruce Macgowen immediately notified the crowd that Mike Lacoss would not be able to make it. In his place, Mike Shapiro, the President and General Manager of the Pacifics would take his place. I knew nothing of Shapiro. But we should know about him. Why? Because Mike Shapiro, a baseball executive in the Major League for over 25 years has worked hand in hand with none other than Stan Kasten since 1992. Working previously for the San Francisco Giants, Atlanta Braves and Washington Nationals, Shapiro has served as legal counsel, television production and engineering, media and rights acquisitions, facilities management, marketing, contracts, and even as a sports athlete agent. He has done it all, and he considers Stan Kasten to be his mentor.
Mike Shapiro, President and GM of the San Rafael Pacifics, worked with Stan Kasten for nearly 20 years.
In the body of this posting, I’ll provide the Marshall interview and the questions both Bruce Macgowen and later I was able to ask him. But in interest of addressing current Dodger ownership moves, I provide you with Shapiro’s answers to questions about the Dodger ownership group.
Talking about the sale of the Giants to Peter Magowan and his partners in January, 1993, a move that kept the Giants in San Francisco. Interestingly Shapiro noted that their previous owner, Bob Lurie sold the team to Magowan instead of the group that wanted to move them to Tampa for $25 million less because he preferred that they stay in San Francisco.
Mike Shapiro: When the new Giant ownership group bought the team (in 1993) the Giants decided they would bring their own new staff in, which left me out of a job. When your part of a senior management team, teams get bought and sold and they tend to bring their own staff with them. So, the new Giants ownership wanted to bring their own senior management group in, which was perfectly understandable at the time. So what happened was I was looking for another baseball job. I happened to be in Bob Lurie’s office when he got a call from Ted Turner. He was calling to say he was sorry that he was leaving baseball and Bob said to him, “hey, by the way, do you think you can use another executive? (talking about Shapiro) he’s been our general counsel for business affairs, do you have a spot with the Braves for him?” and Turner said, “our Braves General Counsel is moving to Hong Kong with CNN” and the rest they say is history.
Bruce Macgowen: Seredipity.
Mike Shapiro: Serendipity. We moved to Atlanta.
Bruce Macgowen: And you got to go there at a great period of time
Mike Shapiro: We won the World Series in 1995 and (interrupted)
Bruce Macgowen: You got the ring.
Mike Shapiro: It was an exciting era of Atlanta Braves baseball. We also had the conversion of the old Atlanta Fulton County Stadium to the new ball park at Turner Field. The Olympics happened while we were there, I also saw the conversion of the Braves Spring Training Complex from West Palm Beach (where they were sharing a Complex with the Expos) to DisneyLand (actually it is DisneyWorld, but who’s going to argue), where their Spring Training complex is today. It was fascinating negotiating a Stadium deal with the Disney people. Where I had more fun knocking my head against the wall.
It was an exciting time, and the most important relationship I developed at that time was with Stan Kasten, who was the President of the Braves and he became a mentor for me and someone I admired greatly and learned so much about how to operate a major league franchise. Then later on when the Expos became the Washington Nationals, I helped negotiate the Lerner family to buy the team, I went over to help run the business affairs for the Nationals, and Stan came as President coincidentally, so I had another opportunity to work with Stan. And now we know of course, he’s just bought the Dodgers.
Later in the evening during the question and answer session with the audience, I asked Mr. Shapiro the following question:
Evan Bladh: Knowing Stan Kasten’s management style, what do you think he’ll do with the Dodgers? Will he come in and clean house? Is Ned Colletti’s job safe?
With respect to Stan and the experience I had with him, fairly recently in Washington where we came in and took over an existing organization with an existing general Manager. It was even a General Manager that Stan did not like. And, he never made the change. He’s a very contemplative guy. I have spoken to Stan recently about this.His approach is going to be to go in to the front office and observe, and see who works and who doesn’t work for the vision that he has where the team is going to go. And I think that’s the critical part. Stan, he’s such a smart guy. He has a vision. He knows what he wants to see. Where he wants to see it all go. He’s going to make sure he has the parts in his organization to make that happen.
I have no idea how he perceives Ned Colletti at this point. But I would venture a guess right now that Stan’s going to take a long, long time to evaluate whether he’s the right guy to have.
So there you have it. Words from an executive that knows Stan Kasten very well and has worked with him in two MLB organizations. Shapiro is practically a Marin county native and considers this area of the country his home. He appears to be happy in this new venture to re-established organized baseball in San Rafael, but I can’t help wonder if he might have a future in the Dodgers organization once Stan Kasten begins to place people that he trusts and who share his “vision.” I wasn’t about to ask Shapiro that question, because this event was for the Independent League Pacifics and a promotional event to push that organization, but I have a hard time believing that Shapiro would turn down another opportunity to work for his mentor with what would be their third major league organization together.
What follows is much of the exact dialogue of the event itself. The program lasted over two hours, so I did not transcribe some of the dialogue that I believe this blog’s audience wouldn’t be interested in. What I did provide were questions and answers that had to do with Marshall’s experience managing in the Independent League Minors, his Dodger career, baseball history, and other topics. There was quite a bit of talk that delved into the steroid era and both Shapiro and Marshall’s takes on that. I left much of that out because it was a bit long. Though interesting, in the interest in space I took much of it out.
Bruce Macgowen: Now the gentlemen that are here tonight are kind of different in that they aren’t playing at the major league level or managing at the major league level, but both have prominent experience in the Major League level... I don’t know if many of you are familiar with the fact that here in the Marin County Area there used to be a baseball presence up until the 1970s
Now the first person I want to introduce tonight is the manager of the San Rafael Pacifics and he’s a very familiar name to those of you that have been following major league baseball for a number of years. He played with the Los Angeles Dodgers, now don’t boo, it’s okay, he was an outstanding hitter with the Dodgers in the 1980s and had some great years and then he went on and played in Japan. He has been managing in the minor league level, the independent league level now for some time. It’s a great pleaseure to have him here with us tonight, let me introduce first, Mr. Mike Marshall (applause)
We were hoping we’d have Mike LaCoss with us tonight, Mike could not make it, substituting for Mike, pinch hitting as it were is a fellow that has worked for several management groups as legal counsel. He worked with the Giants, with the Atlanta Braves and most recently with the Washington Nationals. He has experience with professional sports promotion, and just about every aspect of front office work with a number of different programs, the General Manager of the San Rafael Pacifics, Mr. Mike Shapiro (applause).
Mike Shapiro is a Marin county guy, who hails originally from Connecticut, (to Marshall) Mike where are you originally from?
Mike Marshall: Chicago.
Bruce Macgowen : Well welcome to the Bay Area. Let’s talk about what this new team is all about, the San Rafael Pacifics. I mean, first how did you become the Manager? I know you’ve done this for a few years.
Mike Marshall: I spent about 8 or 9 years off after I retired (in 1991), and the game kind of called me back. You really need to keep your hand really in affiliated ball to stay in because Whether you call friends or what have you. (It’s not easy to get back) The easiest thing for me was (to return) where I grew up, I came back with a local independent team near home, the Schaumberg (Illinois) Flyers. So I got into the Independent game, I had two young kids. I wanted to play again and manage or coach near my home. Now, 13-14 years later, between the front office and managing on the field a little bit, I have kind of made a career out of it. It’s so much different than affiliated Minor League ball where you are developing players and taking drafted players and then moving them from Rookie Ball, A ball, Double A and Triple A. This is totally different. What we’re bringing to San Rafael is a level of baseball where we’re going to have Double A, Triple A, ex-Big Leaguers, all that have been released that are trying to make it back. They couldn’t get a contract. And as Mike (Shapiro) will tell you, we’re trying to put people in the stands, sell hot dogs, sell advertising and win. So we’re kind of a mini version of the Majors. We really aren’t a minor league type affiliated atmosphere.
I really enjoyed what I do. I negotiate contracts. I scout players, I sign them. I coach them. It’s been a great experience for me. I’m excited to bring this to San Rafael and boost this league up. Where you can see some top notch baseball at an affordable price for families.
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I apologize for this shaky photograph the I took from the first row. (L-R, Macgowen, Marshall, Shapiro)
The evening progressed with a discussion of the history of the Ballpark in which the San Rafael Pacifics play, Albert Park. Mike Shapiro mentions a bit about it’s history, the barnstorming tours that played there. The restoration of the facility, and how such Hall of Famers as Frank Robinson, Vada Pinson, Satchel Page had actually played there.
Shapiro has begun fund raising to rebuild the old ball park and he has been successful in turning the old facility into a decent place to take in a ball game.
Marshall discussed some of the players he has recruited. One is a retired Japanese player, Nomo Suboi, a good friend of Ichiro Suzuki, who is trying to latch on with an MLB team. He mentioned that they are currently negotiating with former Dodger, Aaron Miles (unless a MLB affiliate expresses interest).
The season starts in June and is 84 games. Other teams in their division of the North American Baseball League are Orange County, Yuma and Maui. They have limited funding and attempt to schedule traveling that takes advantage of the trips with long series against each team. Due to the economics of the league, the Maui trip involves several teams traveling there all at once in which numerous games are played.
Eventually the conversation drifted back to Mike Marshall’s MLB career as he mentioned that his pitching coach is former Red, Astro and Giant, Mike LaCoss.
Bruce Macgowen: You guys were great friends back in the day. (referring to Marsahll and Lacoss)
Mike Marshall: I didn’t talk to the pitchers on the Dodgers, let alone the pitchers on the Giants.
Bruce Macgown: Those were the days when players didn’t fraternize.
Mike Marshall: The game has changed a little bit. We weren’t very friendly with the opposition. And there were only two divisions. In Western Division of the National League, we’d play each other for three series home and away. So we’d see a lot of each other. I never had any problem or got in any trouble when we played the Giants (Smirks).
(audience laughter)
Bruce Macgaowen: Mike (Shapiro) worked for the Giants at the same time that Mike (Marshall) played against them with the Dodgers.
Mike Shapiro: At that time my wife Janie was working in the security department for the Giants. You know, Mike (Marshall) uh, maybe didn’t get along so well with our players at the time and whenever the Dodgers came to town, Jane might be in the bleachers breaking up a fight
Bruce Macgowen: So you wife was breaking up fights between drunks at Candlestick. The fans were pretty rude at night. (To Marshall) you probably had a few things thrown at you out there.
Mike Marshall: You know it was amazing, the wind would move in there right after batting practice and the fog. I’ll tell you, playing against the Giants was so much fun. I mean the fans were into it. Tommy walking out of the clubhouse and blowing kisses to the fans. And the games. The ’82 game when Joe Morgan hit that home run off of Terry Forster. And we got them a couple of times. There were so real good teams there when Roger Craig came over and turned that franchise around. There were some good battles, so I enjoyed the rivalry. You know it’s funny, when I signed out of High School at 18 years old and I was in Rookie ball, the Giants were Great Falls, Montana. They were in San Jose, I played against them. They were Shreveport, in Double A, and Phoenix, Triple A. So all throughout my minor league career, I’m facing them for 4-5 years. Then we go up to the Major League level. So you can imagine the rivalry that has developed. I;m playing against the same players for years and years in the minors. That’s why every once in a while, I got in a little trouble.
Bruce Macgowen: The one thing I remember about Mike was that one game, I think it was in 1987. I think they pitched around Pedro Guerrero to face you, in a tight game. And you hit a home run, to break up the game, and as you were coming around the bases, you started doing this (points with right rand), you started gesturing to Roger Craig. And I saw Roger Craig yelling at you later. It got pretty heated. I think the next hitter up got decked didn’t he?.
Mike Marshall: Yeah, and then I would get decked every game after that. I would get thrown at too.
Bruce Macgowen : The fans really let you have it.
Mike Marshal: Yeah it wasn’t one of my brightest moves, not a shining moment. Every once in a while you plead insanity (laughter from audience...I provide the footage of the event via youtube video below).
Bruce Macgowen: Pedro Guerrero was intentionally walked to get to you? Pedro Guerrero was a great hitter. That also had to rankle you, because I’m sure you thought “I’m a pretty good hitter.”
Mike Marshall: That’s what happened, it’s just that the way I went about it wasn’t probably the most (interrupted)
Mike Shapiro: Well I love reminding Mike that our good friend Duane Kuiper has no love lost for Mike either. Because you broke his collarbone?
Mike Marshall: Yeah, I’d never seen it before but Candy Maldonado hit a little pop up. I mean when you hit a pop up, it usially isn’t barely blooped over the pitchers head, so, if you could imagine the ball is hit and, I was at first base, and I’m looking and looking and Duane Kuiper went for it and I hit him with my chin, at his collarbone. I mean, we just came together. I probably had a concussion, now the way they are so careful with head injuries, but um, that’s how I got back at the Giants... with Kuiper. But we had some great, great battles. And with what the Giants have done the last few years with the new stadium. They have gone about building up their organization from the minor leagues on up. Then winning a World Championship. Sergio Romo three or four years ago played for me in an instructional league. He was playing A ball then. He wanted to make a club, so he came to our try-out camp out there in Arizona. He pitched for me for four weeks. Three years later he’s pitching in the World Series. So that’s the type of players that’ll be playing for us. They’re only one little step away from playing in the big leagues.
Bruce Macgowen: I remember 1988, from a Bay Area standpoint, a sad time. Where this mighty group of young guys, the Oakland A’s, that were flexing their muscles. Dave Stewart, and Bob Welch and of course Canseco, Magwire, and Landsford. Rickey Henderson hadn’t come back yet. They had a great team and you guys were sort of the forgotten Dodgers. There some great teams throughout Dodger history but this was not a great team. But you caught fire with Orel Hershiser, and the guy I think of that was the wild card was Kirk Gibson. He hit that home run in that first game, I was at that game and the whole stadium was just electrified. When the A’s walked off that field they had to be thinking,“wow, we have a real battle here.”
One of my favorite Jon Soo Hoo photos. Shelby, Marshall and Sax celebrate as game 4 of the NLCS ends in victory over the Mets. Shelby has just made a shoestring catch of a Kevin McReynolds fly ball to end the game. I showed this pitcure to Mike Marshall and his wife Mary, they liked it so much, I gave it to them. (photo by Jon Soo Hoo)
Mike Marshall: Yes it was a magical year. Orel Hershiser breaks Don Drysdale’s record. It was truly amazing, I think he ended up with almost 70 straight innings without giving up a run, I mean he took it right into the playoffs and World Series. Kirk Gibson, he hit the home run, you know, how many guys win an MVP with 80 RBIs? That’s what he did that year. He didn’t put up incredible numbers.
What I was looking at was, we went to the World Series in ’81, I was barely a part of that. Then in ’83, we went to the playoffs and we lost. Same thing in ’85. We just couldn’t get over the hump. We had good talent and great pitching, we just couldn’t break through. And when we brought Kirk Gibson over from the Tigers where he had won a World Series. He had played for Sparky Anderson. He had that football mentality. He was a first round draft choice and a wide receiver out of Michigan State and I needed that, because I was like one of the few guys in our clubhouse that had the football mentality . We play 162 games and it’s hard to be mean for 162 games. It’s hard to do it and be so focused, but Gibby could do that. He made everyone around him better. I needed it. I hit behind him, we worked together.
Not only did Gibby win the MVP and Orel the Cy Young, but it was just the impact of those two guys. One on the pitching staff and one of the regulars. We were big underdogs against the Mets who were probably the best team in baseball having won well over a hundred games, and then we beat the A’s off of Gibby’s Home Run and then Orel throwing, I think two shut outs. It was an incredible experience and you see now those guys that brought us that World Championship. You look at Mike Sciosica, and see the success he’s had with the Angels. You see Kirk Gibson, Manager of the Year with the Diamondbacks. Ron Roenicke came up in the 80s with the Dodgers and I played with Ron, he’s having success in Milwaukee. Then you go back to Dusty Baker, I mean Dusty Baker was a Dodger leader in the late 70s and early 80s. Now Dusty is in Cincinnati winning titles. The Dodger Way, the way we were brought up and the way we played the game, it is sort of what the Giants have done the last couple of years.
So it was a great time to be a Dodger. Under the O’Malleys and the old school ownership and the way the things were in the 70s and 80s. There are still a few of those franchises left but not too many.
Bruce Magowen: It’s interesting talking to Mike here about going into the clubhouse if you’re a visiting reporter. And I always felt comfortable doing this Mike because I never felt like I was intruding, as I was just doing my job. But I know a lot of people that work in the baseball field that think that we shouldn’t be in there. That this is where these guys work, and sometimes that forces you to walk on egg shells. I remember with Gibson, working very carefully because I didn’t want to upset him. Kirk Gibson was a rough customer. You did not want to get this guy upset with you.
Kirk Gibson, at Michigan State, 1977
Mike Marshall: When you talk to Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker and Lance Parrish, all the greats from those Tiger teams, they all say the greatest player, not maybe by talent, but the greatest player they ever played with was Kirk Gibson. I just wish I could have played with Gibby more than just the two years because I could hit behind Gibby. I mean, Gibby was a son of a gun. He told you what he thought. Every game was a football game, every game was a war. I’ll never forget, Gibby would call out teammates, I wish I would have had that a little more in my career. I was almost looked at...people used to say to me, “hey, lighten up a little bit, laugh, you know, don’t take it so seriously,” and I saw things as a battle. And when Gibby came over it was quite a load off of me because, heck, you watch video of him. You talk about intensity. Watch a Diamondback game now, look in the dugout. There’s not a whole lot of fun going on in there. Gibby, he’s not smiling very often in there. There’s only one thing on his mind and that is “how am I gonna beat that other team.” Now he’s doing it with his head. Before he was doing it with his legs and his bat.
Bruce Macgowen: Without question the most intimidating player I ever dealt with. I remember going into that Tiger clubhouse in 1984 and interviewing a fellow by the name of Chet Lemon, just a gentleman. I was doing this interview in a quiet clubhouse. There were maybe 5 or 6 players around and all of a sudden I hear this screaming and yelling from across the room. I look up and I didn’t recognize who it was. It was Kirk Gibson and he had that hair and these wild eyes and he looked right at me. “What the bleep are you doing here? Get the blank outta here!” I said to Chet, “What the heck?” and Chet said, “Oh, that’s Kirk, don’t worry about it.”
Mike Marshall: You go to a game today, the teams are gathered by the batting cage, and chatting ...it just wasn’t that way back then. It was a lot different. And we learned from the guys in the 60s. I mean when I first got called up, we had Davey Lopes, Bill Russell and Steve Yeager, Reggie Smith. I mean Reggie was about as close to Krik as you could get in intensity.
Bruce Macgowen : He went after a fan in the stands in Candlestick.
Reggie Smith, an LA Native and Centennial High (Compton) Graduate, started his career with the Red Sox
Mike Marshall: Yes, tough guys. They played in a different era. You know those 60s guys with Bob Gibson and there was only half the teams you have now.
Mike Shapiro: And you were bred in the Dodger Way, from Alston to Lasorda.
Bruce Macgowen: You know as a kid growing up, There were players you were in awe of. I’m sure Mike Marshall had his players that he idolized.
Mike Marshall: Santo, Kessinger, Beckert, Banks. Every time you could sneak away in the summer there was day baseball with the Cubs. Jimmy Williams and Adolfo Phillips and Jim Hickman, Randy Hundley, Ferguson Jenkins. Those Cubs in the late 60s were great to watch.
Bruce Macgowen: You still get sad when you think about ’69?
Mike Marshall: Yeah, Santo kicking the heels. Losing whatever it was, 11 or 12 games in September with Leo Durocher. But then I liked the White Sox too with Chet Lemon and Bill Melton and Dick Allen.
Bruce Macgowen: Allen smiking cigarettes in the dugout.
Mike Marshal: Yeah, I talked to Chuck Tanner many times and he said you’d put him in the three hole and hoped that he got to the game. But let me just say that one of the amazing things about being a Dodger was going to Vero Beach, Florida as a young minor leaguer and early in my major league career and the O’Malley’s made sure on any given night you were eating dinner with Sandy Koufax or Duke Snider. Roy Campanella was there the whole time and he’d come in the wheelchair. Pee Wee Reese and Maury Wills and Don Drysdale. Every night you would have dinner with them and you’d see them in Dodger town. It was incredible. These guys from the 50s and 60s. There was a real pride to being a Dodger. I still remember we’d sit down just like you are here and you’d have Sandy Koufax telling you what it was like to face a big right handed hitter and how he would try to get him out. I just got to learn from the best. It made you want to be a Dodger and you just wanted to win. That was an amazing time to be in the organization.
Bruce Magowen: Let’s switch gears a bit and talk about what it is like being in the batters box in a tight game against a big rival and everything’s on the line. What’s going through the mind of you Mike? Maybe it’s the 9th inning and you’re down by a run and you’re facing the ace reliever. The average person probably couldn’t handle such pressure.
Mike Marshall: Most of the time, depending on the preparation, maybe you are on deck or maybe you are hitting third or fourth. A lot has to do with preparation. If you are leading off, boy, you’ve got to run off the field, get your helmet and batting gloves on and then you’re in the box. A lot of our preparation goes on 4 or 5 batters deep. Especially for me. I usually hit fourth or fifth in our heyday so, there was a lot of time when Saxy would hit and get on and then Landreaux would move him over. You know, you’d ask “ what’s Gibby gonna do?” And so you kind of prepare yourself for the situation you’re going to be in. If you’re 4th or 5th in the lineup and you get up that inning, there’s always going to be guys on base. So there was a lot of preparation there, but once you get into it, it’s an amazing thing. There’s no sound in the batters box. That’s when things are going really, really well. You don’t hear the heckler, you don’t hear the organist, you don’t hear the umpire. I mean you are so in tune with things.
Bruce Macgowen: Do things actually slow down?
Mike Marshall: I’m hoping they do. Sometimes it seems that way. I’m hoping that it does slow down where all of a sudden you’re registering “what’s he gonna start me with?” A lot has to do with the catcher. Is it Terry Kennedy, is it Gary Carter. you know, how certain catchers call pitches. Also, who’s on deck? Who’s on base? All that sort of stuff is in your head. At least for me. All I can describe it as is that you’re kind of in a vacuum and there’s no sound. There’s no sound when you’re running the bases. There’s just no sound when you’re playing the game and then all of a sudden when you’ve doubled and you come into second, then all of a sudden the noise comes back and you hear the crowd. But during that time at the plate and you’re facing 95 MPH heat and you’re battling or whatever it may be, it’s just, that’s how I describe it. It’s like muting the television.
Bruce Macgowen: Hmm interesting, You mentioned Gary Carter, who just passed away recently with a brain tumor. Gary Carter, as you guys know, was one of the great catchers of his era. He said something, he said, “I’ve had a lot of great experiences, my family is very important, there are a lot of things that are important besides baseall, but I knew when I got on that ball field, I knew I was alive.” I often hear that from athletes about when they are in the moment, it’s like your body, you’re in tune with something, you’re using your brain, but you’re using your body to and there’s something almost electric about that moment. Gary was one of those guys I know that Mike (Shapiro) you got to know very Carter, after he went to the Giants. One of the nicest guys, you’d go in that locker room and he was always so upbeat. He used to get in trouble for that, they’d say he was a phony, but the reality was that was who he was.
Mike Shapiro: Especially to his teammates. Even though I didn’t know him until a bit late in his career, with his presence, he commanded respect. I think that his sort of “rah-rah” thing was appreciated by his teammates.
Mike Marshall: As a batter he’d drive me nuts. He’d always stare at you because he didn’t want you glancing back to look at signs or look at shadows so he was always staring at you and he was always talking.
Bruce Macgowen: What’d he say?
Mike Marshall: He was trying to break you, trying to have you hear things. Trying to get me out of that zone and (interrupted)
Bruce Macgowen: Was it friendly.
Mike Marshall: Well to him it was but to me I’d tell him to be quiet. He’d be asking me how my family was or how the trip was going, or where I was going to eat after. I’d just say, “Quit looking at me,” but then an amazing thing happened. It was 1984 and he was elected to the All Star team, and Gary Carter’s was a star already. I snuck onto the All Star team. It’s in Candlestick Park, Gary I think hits a home run and I had more respect for him after the All Star game. When I was playing against him I didn’t like him, and I kind of listened to everybody about the “rah-rah” stuff and “kid this” and I was like, get out of here Gary. But he was a leader the minute we walked into that All Star game clubhouse. He let us know that the All Star game meant something, bragging rights Natioanl League over the American League. Gary was the leader in that clubhouse. He wanted to win and he took the team and it was like he was the captain. He was MVP. From then on I knew he was the real deal. Later he won a World Series with the Mets, and became a Hall of Famer. I'm happy to say that he was in our Independent League. He managed a few years ago the Orange County club and he won a championship. I got to see the real Gary Carter at that All Star game and then later after he started managing and I have a great amount of respect for him. He had great faith and it’s so sad. There really wasn’t enough said. It was one of those things where it was on the front page for a day and then he was gone. Somebody needs to write a book or make a movie about Gary Carter. What an incredible life and incredible player.
Bruce Macgowen: And an incredible energy.
(To be Continued tomorrow, Marshall talks about practical jokes, Tommy Lasorda and practicing in Spring Training, Why it was special to be a Dodger, and he answers my questions about how he and the core of prospects he came up were received by the veterans and lastly, his recollections of Fernandomania)
